Want healthier, more productive calves? It all starts with colostrum management. In this episode of Ruminate This, we’re joined again by Danielle Varner, Calf and Heifer Specialist at Cargill Animal Nutrition, to explore why quality and quantity matter, especially for bull calves and beef-on-dairy crosses. We discuss how investing in a well-executed colostrum protocol leads to stronger calves, fewer health issues, and long-term profitability, and why relying on “band-aid” products won’t fix poor management.
We also discuss the two pounds per day growth challenge – who’s achieving it and what it really takes. If you’re serious about raising healthier calves and improving farm success, this episode is packed with valuable insights you won’t want to miss!
🎧 Listen now to set your herd up for lifelong success!
Scott Zehr
Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode of Ruminate This with Agrarian Solutions. I’m your host, Scott Zehr, and today we have the pleasure of talking with Danielle Varner once again. Danielle apparently I didn’t beat you up too bad on the first podcast that we did together. And thank you for agreeing to come back for this round two.
At the end of the last time we talked, you said something that I think is a controversial topic. So I can’t wait to dive into this conversation. Today, folks, we’re gonna be talking about colostrum the first 24 hours. I think some of you may have even heard us talk about one of our favorite sayings within Agrarian, courtesy of Dr. Larry Roth. What happens day one, week one, month one, sets that animal up for the rest of her life.
And in the last episode with Danielle, we kind of alluded to that, how what we do in the beginning can change the entire trajectory of not just that individual animal, but the whole herd.
And so today, Danielle, I’d like to dive in more with you on that topic of colostrum. And just for everybody, Danielle, just give us a refresher of who you are, where you’re at in the world, who you’re working for and what your role is.
Danielle Varner
Yeah, of course. Thanks Scott. So, I’m Danielle Varner. I currently work for Cargill Animal Nutrition as a cap and haver specialist covering Pennsylvania. I studied at Delaware Valley University where I majored in dairy science and then I spent five years working at a herds manager. Whether it BMPA and then I went over to Utah, mostly managing the Hispanic workforce, but also managing the herd health aspect.
Scott Zehr
Awesome. Well, Danielle, welcome back to the hot seat.
Danielle Varner
Thank you for having me.
Scott Zehr
So I enjoy people that are like, passionate about something, right? I think it’s crazy to think that you’re gonna find somebody that’s just passionate about every little thing. I think that’s nuts. But the more I’ve gotten to know you, I’ve appreciated how much passion you have for these baby calves. And I think that’s worth talking about. So what drives that passion?
Danielle Varner
I loved working on farm. I love what I do. I think I really found passion. My grandfather had a dairy farm, still does, around 220 cows, and my first job was feeding calves. And I was so frustrated because a calf wouldn’t drink and didn’t know how to tube. So you’d leave it there and then people would forget and then this calf would be dead. And you’re like, darn it. If I just knew how to do that thing, I could have saved it.
So I said, I’m gonna go to school and I’m gonna learn everything. I whether it’s the reasons why we do the things we do, or you know, the skills of how to tube and how to iv, because I really wanted to be the best that I could and I didn’t wanna leave that in the hands of somebody else. I wanted to be able to do the whole job.
And I think just being in the industry, I love what I do and, and maybe I’m not on farm every day, but I love being a partner with the farmers that we do have in order to help them achieve their goals. And I think what being in charge of the Hispanic workforce and being in charge of them and quality as well, I’m very passionate about training.
I’ve seen so many farms, even whenever I’ve started with Cargill, turn their farm around by just educating on the why and it clicks, it clicks for the guys protocol drift is a lot less and it’s a happier environment for the guys. And I’m just so passionate about being able to help farmers achieve their goals.
Scott Zehr
I love the fact that your first job was feeding calves on grandpa’s farm and that’s like what stuck and drove you to college. That is such a cool story. And, I don’t think you hear that a lot. I mean like, that’s like growing up, like that’s your dream job and you’re like living it. So I think that’s pretty awesome.
Danielle Varner
Start to finish.
Scott Zehr
Yeah. That’s, that’s awesome. We’re not gonna dive into what my dream job was when I was a kid. That’s, we’ll leave that one alone. Day one, week one, month one. Colostrum. I think there’s a lot of great resources out there. There’s a lot of people on platforms like a podcast talking about the importance of colostrum quality and quantity and timeliness.
One of my favorite things about Danielle is that she says, get the colostrum in the calf within two hours. Try to get it in within two hours. No, do it. It’s such a big difference, right? Between two hours and three hours and four hours. So as I mentioned, there’s a ton of resources. There’s been tons of research at the university levels on quantity and quality. We test colostrum with a BrickX refractometer oftentimes, or we use a high quality replacer. Everybody, Danielle knows how important the colostrum program is. So why do we have to keep talking about it?
Danielle Varner
That’s a really good question. I think there are a lot of groups involved. Kinda like the last time that we were talking how we talked about when you do have your meetings getting different groups of people together, I think sometimes the responsibilities are not as defined. So let’s say you’re milking your cow calves, whose responsibility is it to get that cow to the parlor?
And are you supposed to get her into the parlor or just in the group and then the guys milk her? And then when the guys milk her, who’s reporting? Are they calling the calf, the person who’s feeding the calf to say, Hey, this milk’s here, or are they just coming back around whenever they get a chance to check on it?
And I think sometimes it goes to the wayside because we’re just going through the motions, right? Or maybe we just don’t have enough labor going through there. I think we just don’t put as much importance on that. And then we have a hard time working an uphill battle when she’s immunocompromised, right?
And I think we can do all things right and one little thing goes wrong. So maybe we are testing the colostrum, maybe it’s testing high, and we are getting within that two hours. Is the equipment clean? Are we pumping that colostrum that we just spent all of that within the first two hours into a dirty pale?
And there have been a couple of times that, yes, that’s the first thing I check. I’m not saying you need to buy, have more labor or, or buy a new machine by any means. Let’s just go check and just see if it’s getting cleaned. Because another thing is, whose responsibility is it to clean it? Is it the milkers because they just, they milk the cow?
Or is it your calf personnel because they’re the ones feeding the calf. So I think just making sure that everyone understands how important that is and that communication’s there. And I think if you can really link together your maternity crew, your calf crew, and your parlor personnel, if you’re putting that calf through the parlor, understanding how important it is and helping each other out.
Right. Maybe the calf guy has a lot of calves coming in, Hey, I don’t have time to push these fresh cows in. But it’s really important they get in there at first. So if you could somehow get them in there as fast as you can, and give me a ring when you got the cow milked, I’ll come down and vice versa.
Sometimes the guys in the parlor don’t have as much time. You only have one calf. Go help ’em out. Go push that cow in that you need the colostrum from. I think just having that team dynamic that, because there’s always gonna be part of the system that’s overwhelmed and another part that it’s an easier day for me. And just kind of facilitating that and each department helping each other out when they need it is crucial for accomplishing your goal.
Scott Zehr
So, the teamwork side as you were describing that, I think that could even become a real Danielle because I’m not sure if we always take a step back. And so for me that was very insightful. ‘Cause I’m not sure if we always take a step back and say who all is actually involved in the colostrum program?
And I think you did a great job of explaining that out and just reminding people that there’s a lot of different steps that need to be executed to achieve successful passive transfer. Right? It’s really good take on that. So we talk about successful passive transfer a lot, right?
And we know we can do blood proteins, we can kind of audit the colostrum program, if you would. But dive into it with, for me, a little more from just the animal side, right? So what happens with this animal when she’s getting three, four quarts of high quality colostrum versus maybe two quarts of high quality colostrum?
Danielle Varner
Yeah. So really the IDGs are crucial, right? They’re immunity that they have. I passed on immunity to my daughter through my blood. Cows cannot do that. The only source of immunity that they’re getting is from that colostrum that we’re giving them, which is why it’s so crucial that we get that in.
Within the first 12 hours her ability to absorb antibodies is 50%. 50%. So let’s think it’s the end of the day. We just got done milking. The crew is just like the milkers are off. We’ll just feed her in the morning, 12 hours later. She doesn’t start making her own immunity until around day 21. So as we’re plateauing and we’re going down, when do we normally see scours?
I mean, you could see them the first couple days that could lead to a maternity issue, but if we’re seeing them around day seven to 14, she doesn’t have that much immunity because she’s coming down off the immunity that we just gave her from the colostrum, and she’s still trying to build up her own innate immunity.
So the higher that we can start her, the better off we are. Because if we start her any lower, when she’s going down, she’s so immunocompromised. And then we’re finding an uphill battle because she can’t fight it off. So we’re just trying to get her to survive until she has enough immunity to fight it off on her own.
Scott Zehr
Yeah. Yeah. Death valley, right? That window of like day five, day six, when that passive immunity is really dropping off to, like you say, day 21. I like to call that Death Valley and aptly named that is where calves go to die.
And so, think sometimes Danielle, we start thinking about this calf program, and we’re executing at a high level, very consistently colostrum quantity and quality and timeliness. Right?
But it, it’s still like death valley’s still there. So what advice do you have for folks to try to make sure that calf gets to that day 21 timeframe where the innate immune system starts to kick in and really mitigate losses during that death valley period?
Danielle Varner
Yeah, so I think we really started out, like you had said, we cover the bases with colostrum. We also wanna make sure hot navel dipping. There are two ways for bacteria to enter the calf, and that’s through the bath, through the mouth, and through the umbilical cord. And sometimes that’s missed, right?
Or we’ll dip her while she’s with the mother, and the mother lick it off. So really the new trend has been dipping, navel dipping twice or three times with a tinctured iodine to really close that off and prevent bacteria because there are so many issues you can have there.
And then on top of that, like we had said, it can enter through the mouth, making sure our equipment is clean. Making sure we’re starting from youngest to oldest. We’re not starting with the sick calf that doesn’t wanna drink, and then the new calf doesn’t wanna drink. So we put our fingers in her mouth and now we’re spreading that.
Making sure our boots are clean when we’re entering, that we’re not going to calf hutches and then going to newborns. Making sure our equipment to transfer is clean. The amount of times that we forget that if we have to transport that calf, how often is that calf cart getting cleaned? That we’re not just, just going day by day. And the wheelbarrow has been there for lord knows how long, and the umbilical like bacteria can enter through and it’s covered in manure and, and who knows what.
Scott Zehr
Yeah.
Danielle Varner
And so I think…
Scott Zehr
That’s a great point.
Danielle Varner
And also early detection, I don’t think I can stress that enough, is that you have to have a calf crew that cares and has attention to detail because they need to know how the temperament of each calf. I always say the first day you know that that calf is sick is when she acts off.
The first day when that one normally bolts toward the bottle and she just kinda acts like, eh, she’s playing around with it. She’s kinda. Maybe she doesn’t look off, maybe she looks happy, but she’s just acting kind of stupid. That’s the first day within 24 hours, you’re gonna know if it’s respiratory or scours. So just keeping up on that, because when she’s down and out is way too late.
Scott Zehr
Yeah, that’s a great point. So when I, at, the beginning of the episode, Danielle, I, teased that you said something in our last conversation that struck a nerve with me. Two pounds of gain per calf per day. The reason it struck a nerve isn’t because I don’t think it’s achievable or I think necessarily it’s a bad idea. That’s pretty aggressive.
Danielle, I will tell you, if you ever learn anything about me, I am a risk taker. I don’t mind pushing the envelope, thinking outside the box and challenging the status quo. However I’m curious if two pounds of gain is something that is likely achievable on a consistent basis in the near future for a lot of dairies, similar to how I view eight pounds of components.
I think we’re unlocking more information about the rumen and we’re just learning more on how to better feed these cows and so on. I think eight pounds is, is gonna be achievable on a consistent basis for a lot of herds really soon. Or is two pounds a gain is that just a mindset that we’re trying to instill in people to just continually improve? Or are we chasing fool’s gold with trying to get two pounds of gain?
Danielle Varner
I think you can achieve two pounds, but you earn the right to two pounds. I will not come on farm and say, with my product, you will gain two pounds, without management. Management is key to everything. Anyone who’s gaining two pounds does not go there because they’re buying the most expensive milk replacer or grain. They’re getting there because they’re down to basics, right?
They’ve worked hard to get to that point. They’ve maybe been supported by their nutrition company. I’m not gonna say that that hasn’t been a key part of it. But there is no milk replacement or grain that can overcome management struggles. So we’ve really need to get down to basics. And also, when are you taking the two pound weight? Right?
So people who say they’re reaching two pounds, are you taking that right after weaning or are you taking that when they’re leaving the hutch? Maybe 30 days later, maybe two weeks later. Because they’re gonna be growing exponentially at that point when they’re going to grain and start our intake and rumen fill.
So we really need to be looking at when we’re taking those to see what’s attainable and see when our neighbor says that they’re gaining two pounds, are they taking weights the same as you? As the apples to apples?
Scott Zehr
Yeah.
Danielle Varner
And also for so much money in getting two pounds, are we following through when we move these cabs, what’s our waining like? Where’s the next location and are they losing that? Are we saying, okay, two pounds, check the box.
Scott Zehr
Yeah.
Danielle Varner
Put them out, go to group housing and I guess survive. You know, are we carrying that nutrition and the management strategies over to the next location? I think that’s really crucial is just keeping that throughout because you don’t wanna be gaining all of that and then just to lose it when you move them because they’re so stressed out and they go backwards.
And so I, think that’s the key. Right now, I think your goals for 2025, what should they be? I think healthy calves, right? Because if we’re just feeding them maybe at 26-20 or, whatever we think, 26-24, there’s a lot of different high protein, high fat options out there that we can maybe investing our money in.
But if they’re losing that gain from scours and respiratory events, can we really attain what those products were made for? Those products were made for yes, these kind of gains under correct management conditions.
So before you go out and buy the most priciest food option for your calves, I say you take a step back and does our management support that, support those goals? Because if not, you’re not gonna get the most bang for your buck out of these expensive products.
Scott Zehr
I love that. I love the way you described that. You earn the right to two pounds of gain per day. And, you know, just to follow up on something you said, great, we checked the box. We hit two pounds. Are we dumping them into great grandfathers renovated hip roof tie stall barn that is a quasi freestyle now. What do those animals look like when they’re 120 days old? And that’s one of the things that I like to look at when I’m on a dairy is there’s so much opportunity lost.
I think you can have the best calf program, you can execute the fundamentals on a consistent basis. Recently I interviewed Dr. Billy Brown from Kansas State, and it’s like, I asked him the question, why is this weaned animal dumped into the proverbial black box? And we forget about her until we want to breed her. And you talked about in our last episode, right? Mature body weight of 1400 pounds. We should be breeding her at 770 pounds, I think was the number you used.
So, we got her off to a great start. We did all the things right in the first 60 days. We got her weaned. I like to ask the question, so what? What now? Are you really gonna be able to breathe that heffer at 770 pounds if we don’t have the correct strategies and management in place after she is weaned? I mean, you could breed her at 770 pounds at a year and a half old, but I don’t think that’s what we’re aiming for. Right?
Danielle Varner
Exactly. And, and I think that’s really crucial to talk about it because we have these barns and we wanna use them, right? And then we say, okay, well these ones can withstand more stress than obviously our wet calves.
So we put them in there, take ’em through the system, and then we say, well they lose weight in this barn, but then they gain it back. And the next one. And it’s why would we invest so much money in those first 60 days if we’re just gonna lose that weight and then say it’s okay because they gain it later?
And those calfs that we move through, the amount of stressful points that we put a calf under after those 60 days, normally in, in a week’s worth of time is insane. And that then we expect that they’ll do fine in the next environment. Right? So there’s some that are vaccinating at this time. We do weaning.
It takes ’em a week to adjust to any new change. And then we put a new water source in a different location. We put them with herd mates. The feed might be different, the feed’s in a different location. Maybe they have to put their head through headlocks. And now there are some locations that they have to step down over our curb. So they’re already afraid of that and they’re, maybe dehorning happens at this time. So many different things that we lump together for convenience, right?
Scott Zehr
Yeah.
Danielle Varner
Because we have that might as well get it all done, get it over wit,h plumper in, and, and there we go. And sometimes that can definitely lead to issues and that’s when we see a lot of respiratory in there.
And then we, we give them treatment and they’re all fine. I mean, we’re group treating them. And that’s just become a norm. And I think sometimes day to day, if we do the same thing day in and day out, we become blind to some things. And that’s one thing is just group treating or, crumbles or, what have you.
And we say this is a norm. This is every herd. And it’s not.
Scott Zehr
It’s not
Danielle Varner
Danielle Varner
…dressers out. To really help them, why wouldn’t we whenever at the back end, maybe it’s less time, but it’s, it’s costly to treat and then you have to keep monitoring them to make sure they don’t need retreated. And a lot of those facilities, you have good ways to restrain them?
Can one person do it? Normally, the answer’s no. When you need two people, how easy is it for your calf person, your heifer person to grab one or two people to help or train them? And will they do it if it’s not dire?
Scott Zehr
That’s a great point. You mentioned, you know, we do things like this for convenience. Reminded me of a quote. Danielle, I’m not the smartest guy in the world and I think the smarts that I have are by proxy. One of the greatest quotes I think I’ve ever heard was from one of my mentors. And it was talking about the repro program, but it’s applicable. “Every time we opt for convenience, we sacrifice success.”
And boy, when you like sit back and think about that, it hits right on the head when it comes to colostrum, right? It’s convenient to do it this way, but it’s maybe not the most successful way to do it, right? And I think that’s where folks like you come in as such a great resource for dairies to kind of make them step back and, you know, ask the big question.
Like, what is your goal? Are you really happy with 1.6 pounds of gain? And it reminds me of a question. What do you do when you walk onto a dairy that’s, says, Hey, my calves are doing great. We do weights at weaning consistently, and, you know, we’re seeing 1.5, 1.6 pounds a gain. How do you handle that situation? How do you challenge them to do better if they’re happy where they’re at? Even though, you know, there’s probably more on the table for them?
Danielle Varner
At the end of the day you gotta meet someone where they’re at. And it’s hard on my end. I always want farms to do the best, but that’s, I think where you have leave it is, is I can see this and I can show you the facts and the research because I want the best of your animals and I think you can do better.
But I’m not driving the ship and I’m not there every day, right? So if your calves are healthy, and this is how you define success, is that they’ve made it through. Then that’s where we’re at. If you wanna be in the top 5%, you gotta do top 5% management, top 5%. So it’s just like you kind of said with your employees, right?
You can give them the facts and the figures and say, this is how it could help your operation and not, I really wanna work with you to achieve those goals. But at the end of the day, I’m here to support farmers and I’m here to support your goals.
So if you’re happy with where you’re at, I can let you know the payback, the return on investment that we could do for going to the next step. But I’m here to support you where you want. I’ve learned I can’t care more than with another still, so.
Scott Zehr
Oh man, that’s the mic drop line right there for anybody that’s listening to this podcast that is an industry support person like Danielle or myself. Danielle, honestly, I have gotten to the point, and I mean this with all the respect to everybody out there listening, I will be very upfront with a nutritionist, a producer, day one.
Like, I genuinely want you to be successful. Like I really do. I grew up on a dairy, it’s like in my blood at this point. And I, found, I guess for me, this little niche of, with Agrarian solutions of being able to support and get my dairy fixed, you know, by proxy. But I’ve learned to now be very upfront with individuals, like from the get go.
Like, I genuinely want you to be successful. I want you to have a long and prosperous career, your family to be happy and be able to pay your bills and help you find that success. But if I want it more than you, I usually word it like, if you don’t want it more than me, meeting’s over. We don’t even need to keep talking today. And it was really hard for me to get to that point. It honestly was. And it sounds like you’ve probably had similar experiences.
Danielle Varner
Yes, I have. And I think I am here for the farmer whatever you need. If you need advice, if you need sanitation on it, if you think your crew needs training, if you just don’t have the time for that, but you acknowledge that it needs done, I’m here to help you.
I am here to set you up so you can spike it. I want you to be able to brag to your neighbor about how you’re doing and how successful your crew is doing. And I’m here for that. But I have to also acknowledge that day in and day out, somebody has to audit these protocols, right? And make sure it’s getting done and really lit a fire.
And, if you’re happy with where you are, I accept that and I’m okay with it. If you wanna get to that next, next step, next level, maybe just don’t how to get there. Maybe it’s time constraints or financial constraints. I’m here to meet you halfway, right? If you wanna get there and you wanna get to that next step, here’s what we need to do. If you say, that’s not gonna work for my operation, we find another way to get it done.
And I continue to fight for the farmer and for their goals. And I’m here to work as a partner, right? I don’t wanna step on their toes and say, you must do this, or you must invest hundreds, thousands of dollars.
What we gotta play with, these are our labor. This is our time, this is our money. Let’s figure it out in there with what you have to get your next goals. But, but yeah, I’m not here to say you better do this or you need to do this because its your farm at the end of the day. And you’re the one there.
Scott Zehr
Exactly. Yep. I, think that’s true. And I give Danielle A little bit of credit here. I think this is the first time we’ve ever had a volleyball analogy on Ruminate This. Did you play volley volleyball in college or high school? Is that where that came from?
Danielle Varner
We did at the family reunions, but I’m telling you, it was very competitive, so I got spicy.
Scott Zehr
Alright, fair enough. Fair enough. Danielle, there’s some meat left on the proverbial bone on these calves that I kind of didn’t flush out maybe everything I wanted to as we talked about from weaning on. And I guess it’s a two part question for you, Danielle, but thinking about the Colostrum program and the follow through that is required and the teamwork that’s required to achieve successful passive transfer, how does that particular piece where you devote a lot of your passion to, how does that affect that calf once she’s weaned? And her ability to transition over onto feed?
Danielle Varner
Oh, I think it’s crucial, right? Because if we get that step wrong and then we fight scours, which decrease average daily gain, and then we fight a secondary respiratory and then they go back so they’re already behind. And then we’re gonna put them in a group setting. How often are we monitoring those younger ones?
Are we setting them back when they haven’t caught up with their herd mates? Not really. So we’re investing all this money into the system just to save those calves, you know, they’re not getting bred because they’re not up there. They’re behind. They’re probably the ones that are gonna keep getting respiratory, that we keep sinking money into just for them not to make it through the system.
Scott Zehr
Yeah.
Danielle Varner
So, so it’s, very crucial, right? When we go into repro, we don’t want them catching up because what are they gonna prioritize? They’re gonna prioritize themselves over inception. And then we’re sinking more money in later. So we just keep sinking more money, more money, more money later versus slowing down. I love this analogy that I learned through the company. Sometimes you gotta slow down the speed up. And I think…
Scott Zehr
Amen.
Danielle Varner
And I think, one go: go, go, go. Like, make it happen. We have 24 hours in the day and we can’t make more of them. And we say, okay, like we can’t do this right now. We gotta push it back. We gotta push back cleaning pens.
We gotta push back feeding this calf, we gotta push back until the next day fixing things. Right. And then we get to this point where we spend more time later than if we would’ve just taken the time at the beginning to do it right.
Scott Zehr
Yeah. And, and I don’t even think that’s an anecdotal comment, right? By any means. You mentioned that the last time we visited on Ruminate This the importance of having a patient calf person. Right? And, not just temperament either, right? it’s just patience in the sense of taking a breath, execute quality over quantity, the whole nine yards.
But then again, Danielle, we don’t have to worry too much, right? Because we’ll just make it up when she’s a first calf heifer, right? We’ll just finish growing her as a 2-year-old instead as a,yearling. We’ll finish growing her on her third lactation, right? I mean, isn’t that how it works?
Danielle Varner
That’s an expensive and slow process. Would you rather feed her on a less expensive ration where she’s gonna grow a lot faster in those teenage years? Or would you rather her using expensive feed and using that to grow versus using that to produce and start paying back her bills?
Scott Zehr
Yeah. Yeah. I’m glad you picked up on my hyperbole and sarcasm there. I think this conversation’s a good one to just kind of remind people too, right? It’s, we have to do all of the steps. And I think in general, we all know that. But I’m gonna go back to what you said earlier in this conversation about the amount of people and the amount of steps it takes to get high quality colostrum into a calf within two hours.
And Danielle, could you take that same concept and just kind of extrapolate out for us, like the people in the steps, like weaning and then moving on to that next level as you think through that?
Danielle Varner
Yeah. I mean it depends on personnel as well. Who’s transporting these animals? And are we communicating the calves that maybe had a rough ending, right? We had some pneumonia in this calf and we just got done treating her as that really been relayed. So do we know, has this calf that’s starting to experience some issues with pneumonia, was she already treated?
Does she need treated and she’s starting, is she behind, going through what kind of operation are we separating the calves and moving them forward in the barn in height? Are we doing it by age? If we have ones that are behind, are we keeping them back? And then with that, is there anyone there to, especially that first week, to help the calves to navigate where the water is, where the grain is?
I think we normally do a good job at giving fresh water in the hutches or to our wet calves. And water intake is so crucial. You know, having fresh water to drive intakes and we’re already putting so much stress on the system. How often do we get out there to those barns to clean out the water troughs? I don’t think as often as we should. Right? And…
Scott Zehr
Oh man. You know, one of the greatest things that I’ve seen recently, and I love the way you put that, right? How often are we going out there to just show those calves where everything is. And, you know, they have this whole new house to navigate, if you would. And, you know, where is everything?
So one of your colleagues, Alyssa Dietrich recently I was at a meeting you guys did, and she had this picture of the calf water trough. I think it was for weed calves. And the chain to lock the gate, the location of it it was blocking the calf’s access to the water trough.
‘Cause it went like inside the pen and it was right at the perfect height to where if a calf did get her head through that, she’d probably get strangled. And it’s like some of these things are just so rooted in common sense that I, think we overlooked them.
I mean, just talking, I hadn’t really even thought about that. Like, I don’t think that’s a question that I’ve ever asked a producer. Like, once you move those calves into their new group, once they’re weaned, whose responsibility is it, as you like to say, and how much time is spent just kind of showing them the ropes a little bit?
Danielle Varner
Yeah. And I think really just limiting the changes, right? Because what if there’s a different feed? So they’re already not accustomed to that feed. Now they gotta put their head through sometimes a headlock, which is already scary as it is. And then you’re with group mates. So you have competition. And then your water’s in a different spot. How can we look at it through a calf’s eyes going straight into there and say, how can we limit the amount of fears to get her for intakes, right?
Because she’s already stressed out enough. Can we put that grain maybe on the inside? Right. Maybe not expose ’em to headlocks, maybe just put their head through and not lock up. Or can we put that grain maybe inside if we’re doing maybe super hutches of groups? How can we make this as, painless as possible for the calf?
Because, we don’t really wanna inhibit her meeting or drinking, and she’s still trying to navigate her environment. Overcrowding. At these points, you do not wanna overcrowd there because if there’s no room for them, they’re already stressed out and maybe they’re still catching up, right?
Maybe they just got back on their feet and they’re going through that and then they’re already gonna have a decreased intakes. What are the likelihoods of a relapse? So just feel like getting in there and, and utilize your help. If, I know there are some times that guys are twiddling their thumbs.
Not all the times on the farm, right? But if you go to high school or looking for work, don’t forget those water troughs out there, making sure they’re clean and that they wanna drink outta them and take the lid off. Take the lid off. Because if they do not clean in there, the amount of worms that I’ve seen that gather inside.
The bacteria is still getting in there. And I mean, we’re exposing new calves to the same water. So if we haven’t cleaned that water for six months, you know how many groups of sick calves could have went through there? And just all training saliva. And we wonder why when the calves do drink, they may have some issues?
Scott Zehr
The water trout thing is, crazy. And I think, you know, just thinking through the processes on a farm, I think those calf waters or heifer waters probably are some of the most neglected there are, right? I see a lot of folks that are out bringing cows out of pens, putting them into the parlor.
I’ve seen where they’ll carry like a boot brush, you know, shove the handle in their boots. They get to the waters. They scrub it, they drain them, plug ’em back up like once a day. Like it’s every time on the morning shift. This is a protocol. Yeah, the heifer waters like just going through the rolodex of pictures in my mind I’ve seen a lot of neglected heifer waters. I think that’s a good insight for folks to think about.
Danielle Varner
I think it’s something we become law into after a while. Your day in, day out, you see the calves every day, which is why it’s so important to have a partner with other outside companies. Your veterinarian coming in. Or your current nutrition company coming in, your calf and heifer specialist. We’re not here just to sell you feed. We’re here to help you out.
And we may be there, depends on your farm. We might be there monthly, we may be there quarterly, depending on what your needs are. But we give a fresh perspective because we don’t see it every day. So we aren’t as inclined to become blind to some of the things that you may find that may take five minutes an hour outta the week that could really be the difference between just surviving and thriving and getting to that next goal you have. Not every recommendation that we have is gonna have a price tag on it. Sometimes it’s just gonna have the time on it.
Scott Zehr
I think that’s a great reminder to people that industry professionals that are out there like yourself trying to make a difference, you’re doing it because you’re trying to make a difference. Right? And, I think sometimes people forget about that.
Danielle, I really appreciate you taking time outta your day once again today to join us on Ruminate This. I have just kind of one final question for you and if you had, just 60 seconds to state your case to a dairyman, why to do a better job with these calves? What does that message sound like from Danielle?
Danielle Varner
The calves are our future. We are not in the days where we sell heifer calves for 20 bucks at the auction anymore. These are $500 calves. So how many caps do we need to lose before we realize we have a problem and we could have invested that money into things to prevent that?
You know, how long do we have to take that we’re spewing out money before we invest that money that we lost and what we needed in the first place? And you have partners. Use your insurance company. I come with the feed, utilize me. I’m here to help you. And be open and honest with us, right?
If there’s something that’s not getting done, tell us. Because we can’t help you until we know all the facts. And yeah, reach out if you feel like you don’t know what to do next, or you’re trying to figure out how to implement what you know you need to do, but you don’t know how to do it. We’re here.
We go to so many different farms in a year that have done innovative things that don’t cost an arm to like, we’re here to share that experience too. And we are here for your goals. So yeah, talk to us, partner with us, tell us what you need and we’ll try to make it happen. So yeah, feel free to reach out. Don’t be hesitant because we’re here and we understand. It’s hard date, everything done in 24 hours. So we’re here to make it the least painful process. Right?
Scott Zehr
I love it. That’s such a great use of that opportunity to just get that message out. So once again, Danielle, thank you for jumping into another episode of Ruminate This with Agrarian Solutions. And we have Danielle Varner, Cargill Animal Nutrition, Calf and Heifer Specialist, Pennsylvania.
Find her on LinkedIn. Don’t be afraid to pick your brain once in a while. I think there’s a lot of good stuff Danielle can bring to the table. So folks, I will be talking to you again soon and I hope everybody has a great week.
