In this episode of Ruminate This, we explore how creating a culture of openness and trust can transform your dairy. Whether you’re a producer, nutritionist, or team leader, the ability to foster honest communication and welcome feedback is a key driver in building stronger teams and improving performance.
Jamie Propst, founder of Anglers Unlimited and host of the Fishing for a Reason podcast, shares her journey from animal science to connecting people through the world of fishing. In this conversation, Jamie explains how leaders can embrace feedback from all sources and encourage open dialogue to create an environment where everyone feels heard. She shares practical advice for building trust, gaining buy-in, and empowering team members to speak up no matter their position or background.
If you’re struggling with team buy-in or want to strengthen your team’s culture, Jamie reminds us that leadership is learned, and everyone can grow into the leader they aspire to be.
🎧 Listen now to set your herd up for lifelong success!
Scott Zehr
Hey, welcome everybody to another episode of Ruminate This with Agrarian Solutions. I’m your host, Scott Zehr. And man, I am pumped up today to have the one, the only Jamie Propst in our studio, virtual studio that is today. And one of the reasons I’m excited for this call is Jamie, if I had to, somebody told me to create a Mount Rushmore of people that have positively influenced my life, Jamie, you are on that mount Rushmore.
Jamie Propst
Oww.
Scott Zehr
Unequivocally.
Jamie Propst
Wow.
Scott Zehr
Yes. And you never know. You know, one of the things that I learned along the way, Jamie, is if you are open to everyone you have the opportunity to be inspired by anyone.
Jamie Propst
Mmm-mmm.
Scott Zehr
Then I met you and yeah, I think I was glad that I had that mindset because you’ve done a lot for me personally and professionally. So, I’m gonna start the show by saying thank you.
Jamie Propst
Well, that’s quite the intro. Geez. Thanks. You know…
Scott Zehr
So…
Jamie Propst
and… go ahead.
Scott Zehr
No, I just, you know, taking that, you know, so I’m sorry to like throw that at you in the beginning of the episode like this, but I wanted to get it out there and just tell us a little bit about Jamie. Where you’re at in the world? What, do you do? And then we’ll dive into some of the other stuff about how we got connected.
Jamie Propst
Okay. And I, just wanna touch on that intro. Thank you, Scott. But it goes both ways. And I think that’s one of the beautiful things about being in a close relationship professionally with someone.
You never know how someone can help you grow. And you’ve helped me grow…
Scott Zehr
Yeah.
Jamie Propst
…and change and develop. And it’s just, I’m very grateful to have you as a friend and also to be on this podcast. So thank you for the opportunity.
Scott Zehr
Awesome.
Jamie Propst
Yeah, who is Jamie Propst? I hate that question. I’m just gonna say that straight at the beginning because I think most people probably do. It’s like, how do you answer who you are in a nutshell of a couple minutes? Let me see. I’ll do like a 30 second jamie Propst synopsis.
I live in Anacortes, Washington. And I live here with my husband. We met in a fishing club. We became fishing partners. Then we got married. We started a business teaching people how to salt water fish. That is my passion in life, building community, and especially in the angling community.
I am freak for nature. I enjoy being outside more than being anywhere else in the world. Grew up in Washington state. Oh my gosh, this is hard to do. And went to college to become a vet. And that didn’t work out. I realized how much school it would take to become a vet.
So, animal science direction is where I went. Ended up working for Select Sires, fast forward. And met some of the most incredible humans I’ve been lucky enough to meet in my profession. And ended up where I am today. That’s not a very concise answer to that question, but there you go.
Scott Zehr
Well, I think that kind of paints a broad picture right, of, how this came to be. And so for those folks that are listening, you know, we talk a lot about our feed additive business, our DTX business, but we also have the, what I would call, point of sale business. And those products are typically marketed through the Select Sires cooperatives throughout the country.
And so that’s how we ended up getting to know Jamie. Jamie, you touched on building communities. So first, kind of share with the audience what that term means. And then second, why building communities? What’s the drive behind that?
Jamie Propst
I was really thinking about this. When did that start for me? And I actually think it started with Jim Wells as the CEO of All West Select Sires. He would put a group of people in a room, different minds in a room, and collaboration and conversation, and we would talk and we would learn and we’d listen and we’d challenge each other. And the whole room elevated and the ideas that came out of those experiences were very transformative for me, of like, wow, if I can just be in the room.
So I got really, I really enjoy being in the room with people that are smarter than I am, because being that fly on a wall and learning and also shifting perspectives it’s a blast. I love to learn. So I would say that’s where community, the interest of community originated. Although I don’t know if that’s what I knew what I was interested in, it just kind of happened.
So, when I left Select Sires to pursue a fishing dream, and then Covid hit. It all kind of happened in a weird sequence, but Covid hit, so we were all stuck at home. The Zoom thing became like common place for everybody to be sitting in front of Zoom. And I was craving community. And so I…
Scott Zehr
Yeah, I think we all were, right?
Jamie Propst
We were, yeah, just that connection.
Scott Zehr
Yeah.
Jamie Propst
And you’re sitting at home and you wanna at least connect with somebody. And Zoom was a vehicle to do that. And honestly, I was kind of excited by the fact that all these companies who maybe were resistant to it in the past, were open to it because they had to be.
Scott Zehr
Yep.
Jamie Propst
And it created an opportunity for more people to be in the room that normally would not have been. So that’s where my interest and passion for community started. I created my own in a Facebook group and then started having Zoom meetings once a week. And I didn’t know half the people that would show up, they were up from all over the world.
We’d have the most interesting, sometimes weird conversations that I didn’t know where they were gonna go, but it was like, there was always growth every time. And it was amazing. So I’d say that’s where my interest in community started. Did that answer your question?
Scott Zehr
Yes, it does. And the experience you just described, during Covid, launching into that, doing the Facebook group, what has that turned into for you?
Jamie Propst
It evolved into helping other people build their communities. So what I learned is I got a lot of questions of, “Hey, I want one of these groups like you have. How are you doing it?” And so I started teaching people how to build their own community. And what ends up happening is you, you go into it thinking, I have this vision of what I think it should be. Your audience tells you what it needs to be. You just need to listen to your people. Most people do too much talking and not enough listening.
And so just teaching the person who is gracious enough to be that organizer, which is a huge job and a huge undertaking. You know, Scott, you’ve done it. Yeah. It’s, it’s so much work. You grow in ways that you can never explain to somebody unless you’ve gone through it. But then learning to listen to your audience and changing it and building it in the way that they need and then it takes off.
And so that’s really where I started, was building my own community outta my own selfish want. And then helping other people build theirs. And fast forward, now, I still work with you guys, Agrarian. And we’ve evolved what building community is for Agrarian. But also in the fishing space. I have my own community there pairing my love for nature with awesome humans from all over the globe. So.
Scott Zehr
You mentioned Agrarian Jamie and I, I look at you as the initial brainchild of what we didn’t know yet was gonna become this podcast. Righ?. We didn’t start working with you back in 2020 to launch a podcast.
Jamie Propst
No.
Scott Zehr
It was to do something, I’m gonna say something in the similar space, but something completely different. But it was, if anybody’s wondering how we decided to do Ruminate This, they can just look at Jamie Propst and you’re the one that kind of steered us in this direction and I think we’re grateful for it.
When you talk about, you build a community, right? We’re talking about an online community, a, a way to connect with more people, and I like the analogy you gave, which was a real life analogy with Jim Wells, right? Just the power that can come out of a round table discussion. A brain dump as you like to call it. Right? There’s no wrong here. Just start word vomiting ideas. I’m stealing a lot of Jamie’s verbiage today. What kind of transformation have you seen that type of thing do to people?
Jamie Propst
I think we are taught to sit down and shut up and say the right answer. And it’s a really hard thing to unlearn, and I am still struggling, like even right now on this podcast. Do I tell you the answer that I think would be better and shinier and maybe more well accepted? Or do I tell you my truth? Those are the questions in my head every moment, especially in a public facing forum. So…
Scott Zehr
I, I think if, I think if you wanna ever come back… you know, Jamie, I guess before you answer that, I will say this: I was recently on a dairy and I was looking at their reproductive performance. And the more I dove into it, the more uneasy I got. Because they were struggling. This is the first time I’ve ever been on this farm.
I’ve never met this person before. We have no history. I was there with somebody else. And I finally worked up the courage to just ask the guy before he asked like what I was seeing: “Do I have your permission to be very candid about what I’m seeing?” He said yes. And so I was. And it worked out great. So, Jamie, you have my permission to be very candid.
So, you’ve had an opportunity to work with a number of people, and meet a lot of people, and connect with a lot of people through the online communities. Right? And the inspiration was from real live in person meetings. It’s like you’re trying to recreate that. What kind of transformation have you seen people go through on a personal or professional level that you can like tangibly see the results of what you’re doing by creating these communities?
Jamie Propst
I think the list is long and hard to almost quantify. Because when someone gets the opportunity to step into a room that they’re intimidated to be in, maybe they’re not comfortable even sharing their voice or talking about what really they think or what matters to them. And they’re called on. And they speak up. And then it resonates with somebody else and it resonates with somebody else, and it resonates with somebody else.
And messages get sent and a connection is made and oh my gosh, we relate to each other. So I think the transformation, number one, people get another sense of courage to show up authentically as themselves. And that courage is reinforced when the community rises up to meet them. And it happens every time.
I don’t care who you are or what you talk about, or whether you think you are completely different from every single person in the room. There is always some thread of relatability. And that’s what makes community so beautiful is the transformation of, oh my gosh, I can do this. And then I do it again, and then I’m doing again, and then I’m becoming more powerful every single time it happens.
And, that person that’s listening feels seen, heard and understood because someone else was willing to share. It’s like this massive ripple effect of impact, that you can’t even understand what you’re doing until it just happens. And a lot of these communities end up with lifelong friends or people that do a lot of collaboration professionally.
Yeah, I don’t know how to, some of my best friends in the world have come from freaking Zoom meetings. It’s ridiculous. And not only for, in ways that I guess we all just rise up together. It’s like the rising tide lifts all boats.
Scott Zehr
Yes.
Jamie Propst
Does that make sense?
Scott Zehr
It does.
Jamie Propst
Yeah.
Scott Zehr
It does. if I think about our audience, right? I think there’s a lesson to be learned there. Because if you can do that via Zoom and Facebook and online communities, you can do it in person. I mean, the inspiration behind what you’ve done started out in a room full of people just talking about ideas and talking about challenges or strategies, whatever.
And I think the lesson there, I want to challenge people to do, you know, there’s a lot of talk in agriculture, especially about culture, like to the point where culture is like a buzzword. And my experience with Agrarian Solutions is that if you, and, and granted we do not get to be together on a regular basis. We’re spread all over the country.
So if, you can create the kind of environment within your organization where you bring your people in together in the same room and they know unequivocally that this is the moment each week or each month where we just get to put it all out there. We’re not gonna have to worry about offending somebody because we think we see an opportunity to do something differently within the dairy, maybe the calf program or the repro program.
This is idea time. This is time where we get to openly express and more importantly, hold people accountable. I learned more about holding myself accountable and holding other people accountable from you and online communities than I have at any point in my entire professional career.
I never saw the value in having myself held accountable by other people until we started working with you, with the online communities. So I think there’s a lot we can take away from everything you described with the online community and challenge people to create that mindset within their organization on a personal level. I think that’s really cool.
Jamie Propst
I think you brought up a really good point too, of like even when you’re talking about on farm and having different conversations about challenges that are arising and creating that safe, it’s the safe space of, okay, we have all this to do, we always have all these things to do, right? So oftentimes meetings turn into checklists, have you done your thing, da, da, da. Right? You go through your checklist and it becomes routine.
If the leader, whether you’re in person, on farm, on Zoom, is willing to show up and say, Hey, we’re doing something different today. We’re gonna get together and we are just gonna word vomit, brain dump, whatever. It does take somebody to facilitate it. Just asking a few like fire starting questions, I like to say. Light the match. And then let your people go.
Scott Zehr
Yeah.
Jamie Propst
And you’ll get so many, I wish every farm would do this. I wish every organization would do this. I think a lot do. But there’s some that just they don’t think that’s enough value in spending the time that way. And yet they probably can find some massive cost saving ideas if they just start the fire. Let the group have idea soup, essentially, in a positive, positive way where you’re encouraged to give a bad idea.
Or it’s, you start to speak, you see that person that won’t speak ’cause they’re afraid to, and you say, “Hey, Joe, what are you thinking? I see you thinking over there. Let me know what you’re thinking.” But creating that space where, where the whole group can weigh in on a challenge or an opportunity or a solution, there’s nothing more valuable than that.
Scott Zehr
I love it. it’s great talking to you, Jamie. You know, Jamie, everything you just talked about, brings me back to the Six Types of Working Genius. It could be because we, for those of you that don’t know what the Six Types of Working Genius are, check out the book by Patrick Lencioni.
I think it’s a great book to listen to on Audible, but I like all the books that I do on Audible. But essentially, there’s people that get joy out of pondering the big question, the what if question. The how do we get better question. There’s people that love coming up with novel ideas or solutions to a challenge or a problem or something.
There’s the discerners that are able to vet that idea. There’s the enablers that we need in our team to help move that idea forward. The galvanizer to create the buy-in. And the tenacity, the person that’s gonna be able to bring that project to finish. And I think what’s cool about what you just described of bringing all those people together, whether it’s virtually or in person, is that everybody gets to exercise their genius.
And if they know it’s an open forum and there’s no wrong answers, the what if questions start coming out, the ideas start coming out. People with discernment, you know, start gnawing on those ideas and providing positive feedback. The enablers step up and say, Hey, I would love to help with this.
The people of they know that thrive on tenacity, they’re saying, well, wait a minute, we’re gonna need somebody to make sure this project gets seen through. That’s me. I love doing that kind of stuff. You all of a sudden learn stuff about your team.
Jamie Propst
Yep.
Scott Zehr
That you didn’t even know. I’m a big fan of working genius. If we can, I should probably do a whole podcast on working genius, actually.
Jamie Propst
Absolutely. And there’s so many of those different tools to kind of understand the different personality types or ways people work. And like you said, it’s just being willing to open up the door to discovery even about yourself can be so powerful for your entire team.
So I love that you brought that up and definitely encourage anybody that’s curious about it, especially leaders or farm owners or if you lead people, working genius is a fantastic book. It’s a quick read too.
Scott Zehr
You said something earlier that made the hair on the back of my neck stand up a little bit.
Jamie Propst
Uh-oh.
Scott Zehr
Because as I’ve gotten more comfortable in my own skin over the course of my life, I find it harder and harder to sit down and shut up. Now I, I consider myself to be a very good listener. My wife may disagree with me at least I think she said that one other time. But, you know, it’s like we are trained, right?
We’re trained in in school, we’re trained at college. We’re trained at different steps along the way in a corporate structure, and it’s like the leaders are talking. Everybody else, we just need to sit down, be quiet, listen, and then go try to do, do, do. Right? Exactly. I struggle with that. And I’m curious about you as you’ve grown as a person, personally, professionally, how do you discern when to speak up and when to not speak up?
Jamie Propst
I don’t have that figured out. I’m gonna just be a whole hundred percent honest, is I do not have it figured out. I think we all can create a self-awareness. Like if you look at yourself and you’re in a room, are you on average the person talking or the person listening? I think every person listening to this knows which one they are.
I have always defaulted to the listener. And so it’s natural for me to be the listener and to pull more information out of other people. Doing this right now on this podcast is way harder for me. So I knew that about myself and I wanted to get better. So that’s the second piece is number one, which one are you?
Number two, what do you want to create and why? So for me, I needed to learn to share my voice because I knew I couldn’t make a big enough impact if I didn’t. Therefore, I created a container where I had to show up, be accountable, and speak every single week. And that built a muscle in me to learn how to, I guess get comfortable in that uncomfortable exp, and I’m still not, I’ll be honest.
I have done this for years and I’m still not comfortable. So it’s, yeah, I would just, I would definitely say, I don’t know the answer to knowing when to speak and when not to. But maybe there is this piece of intuition tied to that. Like when your gut is telling you, freaking listen to it, just trust yourself. Easier said than done, but it’s a practice to trust yourself also.
Scott Zehr
It is way easier said than done. And ironically enough, like you, my default is to listen. On a day-to-day level, within my personal life, there’s a comfort level, right? I don’t mind being the person that can, have to be talking all the time, whatever.
On a professional setting, outside of maybe doing the podcast now, as I’ve grown more comfortable with this, my default is definitely, I’d rather just be the guy that sits there and takes it all in, soaks it in, thinks about it, and then come up with opinions later. So it’s interesting that we now both host podcasts.
Jamie Propst
Yeah. Well, let me ask you this, the same question. How do you discern of when to when you should volunteer the information versus sit back and listen? What’s your filter for the same thing? That’s a tough one. I, I really think it is. But it’s so important to be thinking about, so I’m glad you brought it up.
Scott Zehr
I think the, the intuition piece of it is a lot of it. I actually can think back to when I was first hired by Agrarian. The company was working on a project, and my gut told me that this project was not something that we should be spending any amount of time or money on.
But I was the new guy. So, I didn’t speak up. I actually just kind of like, you know what, I’m gonna support him. I’m gonna be the enabler. I’m gonna give my 2 cents on how we can actually make this thing impactful. But I knew when I would go to bed that night or get off the meeting that day, like, this isn’t gonna help us move the needle.
Like I really strongly felt there was zero chance of success. I never spoke up until a year and a half later talking with a colleague, Dr. Roth at the time. And he is like, what is this piece? And I’m like, Larry, that was a bad idea from the start. And he is like, well, why did we do it? Sure you can play armchair quarterback, right? And say those things.
But when you take a step back and try to understand like how that project got started in the first place, you could see that there was merit behind the project. But there was also maybe nobody on the team at the time that had discernment in that particular area enough to speak up and say, “look, this, just something isn’t right about what we’re trying to do. We might be able to utilize resources better in a different direction.” And you know, had I had the courage to speak up back then, probably could have saved a lot of time and energy and resources on a project that is not in our toolbox today.
Jamie Propst
So outta curiosity, what did you learn from that though? And how has that changed how you show up now?
Scott Zehr
Who’s interviewing who here?
Jamie Propst
Well, I, I think these are so important things for the listener, because we all do this. This is so relatable.
Scott Zehr
Yeah. We do. And whether it’s a situation like that, or maybe you’re at a conference and you know, the speakers like, so from the audience, anybody have any questions? And you’re like, oh, I’m not gonna say a word. You know, I don’t want anybody to hear my dumb question. What did I learn from it? I think it definitely helps that we have a team environment that feedback is not only accepted, it’s asked for.
And I’ve had to learn to accept that not all of my ideas are good ideas along the way. But just the fact that I’m willing to bring those ideas or those opinions out to the open without fear of like being ostracized or ridiculed for having a certain opinion. I’ve just learned to speak up.
Jamie Propst
Yeah.
Scott Zehr
Hey, this is my gut. I don’t know if it means anything and maybe is nothing. But this is a good idea or bad idea? And, I think for every if I look across the room of people within the company, I think for every good idea that comes out, there might’ve been 10 bad ones to sift through. But that’s okay.
Because it, creates that creativity, it creates out of the box thinking. it facilitates it. And you have to see it as an entrepreneur. Right, Jamie? Like, if you can facilitate creativity as a business owner from the people that you surround yourself within an organization it can lead us into directions that we ne probably never thought we’d go. I mean, what’s your take on that?
Jamie Propst
Absolutely. So if I understood your question correctly, 10 ideas. Nine are bad, one works. But those nine bad ideas can facilitate growth and transformation that took you down a path or a trail you never would’ve expected. Right? Did I get that correctly?
Scott Zehr
Essentially. Yeah, yeah.
Jamie Propst
So I, 1000%, I think that’s like my life really. I think a lot of times people are afraid to try things because it might be wrong. And, like you just said, if you try the thing and that project that you referenced, wasn’t quite the right project, something happened in the team that led you to a project that was more powerful or maybe a skill was developed, or the boat rises with the tide. You just lift even in the failures.
It’s like when we’re out fishing. We fish all the time out here. Every single trip, you always review what you did and did not do correctly. So you maybe you lost some gear, you got tangled up, you were in the wrong spot, and you, you hit a current that you didn’t expect to be there.
But that ability to look at that experience through eyes of learning instead of shame is so powerful to anything that you’re doing. So I would say, I think the more that we can embrace failure as humans, it accelerates growth, not just for the individual, but the whole entire collective.
Scott Zehr
I mean, you know, there’s a saying for just about everything. I don’t remember whose, whose quote it was, but it’s something to the effect of I didn’t fail five times, before I succeeded…
Jamie Propst
Thomas Edison.
Scott Zehr
I learned, Thomas Edison. I learned five times how not to do it the wrong way.
Jamie Propst
Yeah. It’s like I learned a thousand ways not to make a light bulb.
Scott Zehr
Yeah, exactly.
Jamie Propst
Something like that. Yeah.
Scott Zehr
Yeah.
Jamie Propst
I know exactly what you’re saying because it’s…
Scott Zehr
Yeah.
Jamie Propst
It’s such a powerful thing to think about. And I think most of us as humans are so afraid to fail that we’re not willing to see the failure as a success of just moving through it.
Scott Zehr
Yeah, it is. That’s true. I mean, kind of like this podcast. This has gone a different direction than maybe, than what I thought it would be, and I haven’t seen any need to bring it back to where we were gonna go originally, because I think there’s been a lot of good stuff here so far.
I’m curious, Jamie though, just as a business owner and somebody that is responsible for leading people. What advice would you give somebody that is maybe struggling to get buy-in from their people?
Jamie Propst
Hmm. Two things, first self-awareness. It is hard to lead people. That will teach you so much about yourself. So having the self-awareness to say, this isn’t working, and I need to figure out how to make it work.
Number two, get coached. Find somebody who is the type of leader you wanna be. And try to figure out what they’re doing that’s different that you can learn from and take back to your own process. I think that would definitely be my number one piece of advice.
Scott Zehr
That’s great advice. You know, the type of leader you want to be, like learn from them, right?
Jamie Propst
Yep. And there’s a million ways to do that now. I mean, you can listen to podcasts, you can join a coaching. You can get coached, you can read books. There’s a million ways to figure out how to grow as an individual. And I personally think that’s a lifelong commitment, even as a family member. I mean, just leading your family. If there’s things that you want to improve the group, start with yourself.
Scott Zehr
I think that’s probably pretty huge advice that I think, boy, we can all probably take a bite out of that apple, right? Because as one of my old managers said one time, the burden of communication falls on the leader.
And so if the message is not getting across, maybe it’s not the people that’s listening to the message, maybe it’s the person giving the message. Sometimes it’s the message itself, right? Jamie, I’ll ask you this question. What is the definition of communication?
Jamie Propst
That’s a good question.
Scott Zehr
Right? Just like the dictionary version, right? It’s the transfer of information. Right? So, I say something to you, I have communicated, I have transferred information to you. That’s it. By that definition of what we think communication is, there’s nothing in that that talks about the other side of the conversation.
And so a better definition I like to use is communication is the transfer of understanding. So, if you have a team of people, this is the way I look at it, if you have a team of people that you’re struggling to get them to buy in, to your point, self-awareness. Look to yourself first. And the reason, I love the fact that you brought that up, are you communicating information or are you communicating understanding?
Jamie Propst
I love that framing.
Scott Zehr
There’s a lot we could dive into on that, I think. It’s looking at yourself first and communicating with your team in a way that they understand it. People, I got to go through this again this week with dairies and it’s like, you can buy all the expensive equipment. You can buy all the latest gadgets. But if you don’t have the people to execute, it’s not gonna make a difference.
Jamie Propst
I think you just nailed it right there though. That’s the thing that makes Agrarian great. It’s not, like you’re saying that I helped you do this thing. I did not. All I did was ask a couple questions to a bunch of really great people. You have an incredible team and I’m very grateful to even get to work with you guys. Every time I’m in the room I get lit up.
Like right now, this is like probably, this is definitely the highlight of my day, and it’s exactly what I needed to get the fire lit on my own life. You know what I mean? And I think that’s what’s amazing about Agrarian, is you somehow all the right people are in the room. And so there’s a leader that I’m thinking of, that has the foresight to find those people and talk ’em into being in the room.
Scott Zehr
Yeah. that is true. I will say I think we’re blessed to be part of this organization. And I think there’s takeaways there that we can challenge people to think about in their own organization, right?
The person you mentioned is Rob. Rob had the foresight, in 2019, I think it was, to bring in five people from outside the organization to the Agrarian national get together. Somehow by 2022, all five of those people were either working for Agrarian directly or in your case subcontracting you know, like indirectly. Heck, one guy is even now the CEO of the company.
Jamie Propst
Yeah.
Scott Zehr
And who would’ve thought, right? So, what I take away from that message is there’s an overwhelming message that we get told on a regular basis. And that is keep your head on a swivel for good people, right?
Are these the type of people that fit our organization? And I probably call up Rob at least four to six times a year just for the sole purpose of, “Hey, I just met this person. Put ’em on your radar. They would fit our culture.” And I think that’s probably my biggest takeaway, Jamie, and I’d love your insight on this.
All organizations have a culture. And we spend a lot of time talking about how to build a good culture. But then how do we hire people? We have a job posting, we need a set of skills. We hire the most qualified candidate based on their skillset or track record. We get ’em in. Man, doesn’t really seem like they’re performing at the level we expected ’em to.
We never asked the question very often is, do they fit the culture we’re trying to build? Right? Are we hiring a ringer to try to drive some sales? Or are we hiring somebody that is actually gonna integrate with the fabric of the team? Am I seeing that differently than what you see it in the world and how organizations hire people and how farms hire people?
Jamie Propst
I think you are seeing it exactly how successful organizations hire people. Skills can be taught. We are all capable of learning anything. I mean, I don’t know, let’s start a podcast. And here we are doing a podcast. I mean, you can literally teach anyone anything. But the culture fit is a maker. It can bring the whole team down and rise the whole team up. So I think that’s a huge piece of it.
And maybe something a lot of organizations miss because there’s an urgency to fill a gap. Like, I need this thing done and I need it done yesterday. So I need somebody in here who can do the thing, and that does happen. But if they’re not the right fit, I’ve heard this saying, “hire slow, fire fast.” I could see why. Because if you drag the whole team down with an anchor of a person, that is just, I mean, you can give people a chance, try to work with them, of course, but you’re better off hiring slow and finding that right person that really makes sense. And then keep ’em.
I, I have a very small but mighty team and you get to work with them. And they are the best humans on the planet and I am…
Scott Zehr
Unbelievable.
Jamie Propst
Can’t believe they even hang out with me still, to be honest. And I think that’s, when you have those people take care of them.
Scott Zehr
But it’s such a big part. Like I…
Jamie Propst
it’s everything.
Scott Zehr
I get to go to these conferences across the country, dairy related. Inevitably, within each of those conferences, there ends up being somebody there talking about, how do we hire and keep good people?
How do we find good people? And here’s a real life example. I’ve seen this now, I’ve been in the professional side of the industry. I should say I’ve been in the support side of the industry for about 11, 12 years now. I’ve seen this play out more than once where you start hiring to fill the gap as you put it. You don’t hire for the right fit.
And then all of a sudden, you know, by chance you come across somebody that starts to elevate. They want more, they want more responsibility, they want more involvement. Then the rest of the employees that are collecting a paycheck, they were hired to fill a gap. They have no interest in pursuit of understanding and pursuit of bettering themselves or bettering the organization. They start to make demands. Either the group goes or they go.
I’ve seen it play out both ways where some of those organizations have let the good person go to keep the mob as I call it. And I’ve seen where they’ve gotten rid of the mob and kept the good individual. One of them is a quick fix that kicks the can down the road. And the other one haunts you and haunts you and haunts you as an organization because as you keep letting good people go, you just keep getting overrun by people who don’t care.
Jamie Propst
I think you nailed it right there with care.
Scott Zehr
So then Jamie, I’m gonna ask you this, I guess maybe again or maybe a little bit differently. If you’re a leader of an organization listening to this podcast, how do we find the people that care?
Jamie Propst
You find ’em everywhere. I mean, in conversation, at the grocery store, at a conference. Literally it’s just being willing to get curious, I think. And it’s your gut, that gut feeling does not lie. But something about that person sticks in your head and you don’t know why. Freaking listen to it and then reach out, ask a few questions, learn about their life.
I really think that’s one of the things that one of my mentors taught me was care. Learn about the person first, the job second. Yes, you care about their skills and what they’re capable of. But if you can find the core essence of somebody, it’s just a feeling, you know. You know, when they serve first.
Scott Zehr
I think you’re right. I think you’re right. I think you have to trust your instincts on that. And I would maybe take it a step further and even say like, if you’re having trouble, like discerning those gut instincts but you think there’s something there, ask somebody else within the organization for their feedback on that same person. Right?
Because there might be something there. We just might not be noticing it because we’re attempting or getting ready to hire them for the wrong position. Right? Well, there’s no bad time to have great people within the organization. I don’t know if I fall into that category, but I do know when I was hired, in 2020 by Agrarian, Rob said, “I don’t really know what we’re gonna have you do yet, but you’re gonna be here.”
Jamie Propst
Yep. He’s the one you need to ask these questions to because he has literally masterfully built incredible teams. And again, those are those leaders to follow. If you see somebody who has built a beautiful team and a culture that fosters, I guess, acceleration and growth, not only for the business but for the individuals as, that are part of it, there’s something to be learned. So go grab it. Go discover it. Get curious.
Scott Zehr
I love it, Jamie. You just, summed up my whole thing in a sentence, right? If we invest in people… people investing in the right people is gonna give you the biggest ROI your business has ever seen. And I truly, truly believe that.
And you know what? It makes me proud to know that we’ve invested in Jamie Propst, because I think the return, I really genuinely believe in Jamie, the return on investment has been huge. It’s been huge. So again, just like we started off this podcast, we’re bringing it to a close by saying, thank you, Jamie.
Jamie Propst
Well, thank you. It’s a two-way street, all of it.
Scott Zehr
So Jamie, if somebody wants to learn more about saltwater fishing, how do they find your podcast?
Jamie Propst
It’s called Fishing for a Reason, and you can find it anywhere that you can find podcasts. We talk about fishing of course. But I don’t like surface dialogue as you may have seen. So I’m always fishing for a reason in everything in life. And so we, we talk about topics a little bit deeper. So many puns, I don’t even know what to do with it.
Scott Zehr
I love it. I love it. Sounds like a good opportunity for some dad jokes. So I’m all, I’m all in. Alright. Well Jamie, thank you for taking time out of your schedule today to visit with us on Ruminate This. I think there’s a lot of good nuggets for our listeners to take back to their operations and challenge themselves to how do we find and retain and develop the right people. So thank you for that.
Jamie Propst
Thank you, Scott. Appreciate the opportunity.
Scott Zehr
All right, we’ll be talking to everybody again soon.
Jamie Propst
Bye everyone.
